Congressional UFO Hearing: Whistleblowers Testify About Reverse-Engineered Alien Technology and Government Retaliation

In one of the most significant congressional hearings on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena in U.S. history, former military intelligence specialists delivered sworn testimony about classified UFO programs, reverse-engineered alien technology held by defense contractors, and systematic retaliation against whistleblowers. The hearing revealed that 95% of the government's largest UFO research program remains classified — and that physical evidence from UAP crashes has been secretly stored by private aerospace companies for decades. Below is our full analysis followed by the complete transcript.

A historic congressional hearing on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) revealed shocking disclosures about government secrecy, reverse-engineered alleged extraterrestrial technology, and the systemic retaliation faced by whistleblowers who dared to speak truth to power. Former military intelligence specialists testified to unprecedented UAP encounters, classified programs, and the chilling consequences of exposing the truth.

The Documented Reality of UAPs

For decades, the public was repeatedly told UAP sightings were "not real" or the work of "crackpots." However, documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act paint a starkly different picture. As one witness explained:

The documents from military and intelligence personnel behind closed doors admit that, quote, these things are real. They're not fictitious. They can fly in formation. They're evasive, and they outperform any aircraft known to exist, including ours.

This contradicts decades of public assurances that such phenomena posed no threat and were merely misidentifications of conventional technology.

The OSAP Program and Classified Reverse Engineering

The testimony detailed a massive, previously undisclosed government program: the DIA's Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program (OSAP), described as "the largest acknowledged UFO program ever funded by the U.S. government." This program compiled extensive data, yet 95% of its findings remain classified despite costing "millions and millions of dollars."

Further revelations included Robert Bigelow's secret negotiations with Lockheed Martin. The witness confirmed Bigelow's company secured "a quantity of unusual material" from Lockheed's classified storage facility in Las Vegas, following a deal negotiated with DIA officials. This aligns with reports that defense contractors have long held physical evidence of UAP crashes.

A Firsthand UAP Encounter: The Langley Incident

Dylan Borland, a former Air Force geospatial intelligence specialist, provided a chilling firsthand account of witnessing a triangular craft at Langley Air Force Base in 2012:

I saw an approximately 100-foot equilateral triangle take off from near the NASA hangar on the base. The craft interfered with my telephone, did not have any sound, and the material it was made of appeared fluid or dynamic. I was under this triangular craft for a few minutes, and then it rapidly ascended to commercial jet level in seconds, displaying a zero kinetic disturbance, sound, or wind displacement.

Borland emphasized the craft's impossible physics: "It was like looking at a James Webb telescope picture where you have the colors and then the black background. The craft itself was this black metallic flake paint, but on top of the craft was this gold, lava, plasma, some type of fluid going over and around the craft."

The Whistleblower's Plight and Systemic Retaliation

Borland's testimony exposed a pattern of retaliation against those who speak about UAPs. After reporting his encounter to the Intelligence Community Inspector General, he faced:

• Job blacklisting across intelligence agencies
• Phishing attempts to extract classified information
• Forced polygraph examinations unrelated to UAPs
• Retaliation for refusing to disclose sources and methods

His words resonated deeply:

The future of humanity is one which we either travel to the stars or aggressive the Stone Age with this technology. My career has been to deliver critical information to decision makers. Your role as elected by your representatives is to act on it. The time to act is now.

Project on Government Oversight (POGO) reinforced this, stressing that whistleblowers "risk losing their jobs, careers, livelihoods and reputations" while exposing corruption that "allows that corruption to continue unaddressed." They urged Congress to expand whistleblower protections, noting that "targeting whistleblowers individually risks undermining whistleblowing period."

Firsthand Accounts of Unexplained Phenomena

Former military personnel described encounters with unidentified aerial phenomena that defied conventional explanation during a congressional hearing. One witness recounted seeing an equilateral triangle-shaped object near a military base, while others detailed encounters that fundamentally altered their worldview.

What we saw changed our lives in the way we think about everything. I think that's what we're going to do.

Mr. Nusatelli described his immediate response after witnessing a craft near his base: "I went into my house after it left. I made sure no one had been abducted and I picked up the landline. I called the Security Forces Command Center. I reported it."

They reported that the weather station reported no balloons or aircraft, nothing on radar, no aircraft inbound or outbound.

Witnesses confirmed they reported incidents to authorities but received no meaningful follow-up. "I got a call back in about 15 minutes," Nusatelli explained, "with no explanation for what had occurred."

Government Secrecy and Record Destruction

Testimonies revealed systematic efforts to erase evidence of UAP encounters, with officials admitting records were routinely destroyed. One witness provided concrete evidence of this practice through a Freedom of Information Act request.

The Air Force is destroying all their police records every three years on a schedule. They let me know that they were unable to locate any records, that the records had been destroyed by the Air Force.

The most chilling revelation involved a near-catastrophic incident at a Russian ICBM base in 1982:

UFOs popped up over an ICBM base where missiles were pointed at the United States. They performed incredible maneuvers. They split apart. They fused back together. Something entered the correct launch codes... the missiles were fired up and ready to launch. The UFOs disappeared. The launch control system went back to normal.

Witnesses described how Russian officials could not explain the event, calling it "a message from wherever the UFOs were from" — mere seconds away from triggering nuclear war.

Whistleblower Protections and Systemic Obstruction

Experts testified that government secrecy extends beyond UAPs to systemic obstruction of transparency, with agencies routinely destroying evidence and blocking congressional oversight. The Pentagon's destruction of records was highlighted as a critical barrier to accountability.

It's absolutely vital for whistleblowers to have strong protections when it comes to UAP related disclosures. The only way we can make this government work for all of us is if no matter where you are in the federal government, you feel safe coming forward with information.

Representative Crockett emphasized the historical pattern of government secrecy, linking it to issues like the 9/11 Commission findings: "Over-classification was a key factor in the failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks."

They're not trying to protect national security. They're using it as a pretext to hide what's really going on with taxpayer money.

Witnesses reported being punished for speaking out, with one noting: "My career has been tarnished. I'm unemployed, living off unemployment."

The Russian Connection: Classified Documents and Risks

Journalist George Knapp revealed his 1993 mission to obtain classified Russian documents about UAPs, detailing extraordinary risks taken to bring evidence to light.

I met a Russian physicist in the United States. I saw it as a window of opportunity. I removed those pages and carried them out. If they'd caught me, I'd be in a gulag still.

Knapp described the political consequences for Russian officials who provided information: "They described them as traitors. The physicist said, 'If this had happened five years earlier, we would be in prison. If it had happened ten years earlier, we would have been shot.'"

They weren't even allowed to talk to me after that. I went back in 1996 and it was like I had the plague.

Knapp also revealed that U.S. contractors like Lockheed Martin now control classified UAP data, with one witness stating: "They've had it for so long that there's nobody left inside government who knows where it is."

The Recovered Craft: A Mind-Blowing Revelation

Congressional hearings on unidentified anomalous phenomena delivered startling testimony about recovered non-human intelligence craft. George Knapp, the investigative journalist, described obtaining critical documents from Russia under extraordinary circumstances. "I took the top pages off that were stamped with the security signature and I carried them out on my person. But the rest of them I just threw in my suitcase and threw some caviar in there as a distraction as well and hoped for the best. Otherwise, I'd be a citizen of Siberia right now," he revealed.

Dr. Borland described the craft as having "no wings, no rotor, no tail. It had no fuel, no fuel tanks. They didn't know how it flew or how it was operated. It clearly looked like it was aerodynamic. But he would not go further."

The witness confirmed the craft was not of human origin: "It's not ours. It wasn't ours. We didn't make it. We didn't know who made it and how it was built and how it operated. We've got at least one." George Knapp, who co-authored books with Dr. Likatsky (a DIA veteran), stated the scientist had been cleared to reveal only two sentences about the craft after 14 months of approval.

Whistleblower Protections: A Critical National Security Issue

The hearing also emphasized the vital role of whistleblowers in exposing government fraud and abuse. Representative Lee highlighted that "whistleblowers expose fraud at more than twice the rate of third-party auditors," citing the 2014 VA waitlist scandal where over 800 whistleblowers revealed veterans were subjected to dangerous waiting periods. Mr. Spielberger: "We've seen a systematic approach toward dismantling the nonpartisan civil service... mass firings of inspectors general, undermining the Office of Special Counsel, the Merit Systems Protection Board." He warned that retaliation through security clearance abuse "can have grave implications" for whistleblowers, especially under the current administration. The hearing concluded with a strong commitment to whistleblower protection: "We will continue to fight because, look, this is about making sure that this government belongs to the people and restoring the republic the way it was intended to be." The committee also planned to enter additional testimonies from Dr. Steven Greer, Michael Herrera, and others supporting the disclosures.

Full Transcript: Trump-Era Congressional UAP Hearing

Complete cleaned transcript of the congressional hearing on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. This is a public government proceeding — full text provided for transparency and public record.

I have learned much during this long journey and submitted most of my testimony in written form, estimating that my oral statement would take four and a half hours. I will focus on the most important points here, while submitting the detailed written statement for the record. For decades, the public has been told since the late 1940s that mysterious craft observed by millions in the skies, oceans, and land are not real or threatening. Witnesses were dismissed as wrong or crackpots. This narrative changed for me through a paper trail of documents obtained via the Freedom of Information Act. These documents reveal a starkly different picture than what the public, press, and Congress were told. Military and intelligence personnel admitted behind closed doors that these phenomena are real, not fictitious, capable of flying in formation, evasive, and outperforming any known aircraft, including ours.

In 1989, I reported on Bob Lazar, who claimed to have worked at a facility called S-4 near Area 51, involved in reverse engineering alien craft. His testimony was initially seen as extraordinary. Since then, I have interviewed dozens of others, detailing their testimony in my written statement. These include Senator Harry Reid and Senator Howard Cannon of Nevada, as well as Al O'Donnell, the first general manager of EG&G in Nevada, which managed the Nevada test site. Dr. James Likatsky, a career scientist with the Defense Intelligence Agency, initiated the OSAP program—known as the largest acknowledged UAP program ever funded by the U.S. government. Despite its cost in millions, the DIA has not released 95% of the information gathered. Robert Bigelow, the DIA’s contractor, also attempted to acquire physical evidence of UFO crashes while negotiating with Lockheed Martin executives, leading to a deal where Bigelow’s company, BASS, would receive unusual materials stored in Las Vegas.

The USSR launched what is almost certainly the largest UAP investigation in history, ordering all military units to collect evidence of strange phenomena and report it to a central program. This program analyzed reports that often initially went to the KGB before being directed to Thread 3, an analysis initiative. Colonel Boris Sokolov explained Thread 3 aimed to develop superior technology based on UAP observations. I have submitted all relevant documents and will not play a video as it has already been entered into the record for public access.

Dylan Borland, a former U.S. Air Force geospatial intelligence specialist (2010-2013) and senior analyst for BAE Systems and Intrepid Solutions, testified as a federal whistleblower. He has firsthand knowledge of non-human craft and technologies operating without congressional oversight. His career was deliberately obstructed, leading to sustained abuse and professional retaliation for over a decade. In 2012, while stationed at Langley Air Force Base, he observed a 100-foot equilateral triangle craft take off near the NASA hangar at 0130. The craft interfered with his phone, made no sound, and its material appeared fluid. It displayed zero kinetic disturbance, sound, or wind displacement as it rapidly ascended to commercial jet level. In 2013, he witnessed a similar event. Years later, through a sensitive position in a special access program, he learned about the UAP Legacy Crash Retrieval Program, encountering intelligence officers fearful of career repercussions.

Borland faced medical malpractice by Veterans Affairs, denial of work credit, forged employment documents, workplace harassment, security clearance manipulation, and being blocked from intelligence community employment. He became a whistleblower in March 2023 due to these retaliations and concerns about national security. He testified before the ICIG in August 2023 but withheld sources and methods to protect current personnel from retaliation. After David Grush’s testimony in 2023, Borland provided information to the ICIG, but his complaint led to being blacklisted from intelligence agencies and phishing attempts to uncover what he disclosed. He was required to recall ICIG details during a polygraph unrelated to UAPs in November 2024. Borland emphasized that whistleblowers like him face no job prospects or professional future despite serving the nation, feeling discarded and isolated. He stressed that truth remains hidden, undermining the Constitution and allowing corruption to persist.

Whistleblower protections were highlighted by POGO’s senior policy counsel, who noted whistleblowers are vital for rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse of power. They provide critical information for congressional oversight and have a long tradition in national security. However, whistleblowers risk losing jobs, careers, reputations, and face mental trauma. Targeting whistleblowers violates legal rights and betrays public trust, wasting resources and allowing corruption to continue. POGO urged Congress to update whistleblower laws, strengthen protections against retaliation, and ensure whistleblowers receive fair redress. They emphasized that the public needs whistleblowers to achieve a government that serves its people, and that focusing on evidence rather than individuals is crucial for transparency and trust.

Chairwoman Luna recognized Mr. Borland for his testimony and expressed regret for his treatment, promising to address the situation. Mr. Spielberger then spoke on strengthening whistleblower protections, noting Congress has historically supported whistleblowers despite political tensions. He stressed that national security whistleblowing impacts fundamental governance issues, from foreign policy to civil liberties. Despite the personal risks whistleblowers face, their disclosures are essential for accountability. POGO advocates for safe disclosure channels, stronger protections, and holding retaliators accountable. They called on Congress to continue championing whistleblower rights to build the government the public deserves.

In questioning, Representative Crockett asked Borland about his 2012 observation. Borland described seeing a white light pop up near the NASA hangar, initially thinking it was a weather balloon. As he walked toward the flight line, a triangle formed around the light, stopping 100 feet in front of him and 100 feet above. His phone froze and became hot. The craft was a thick, equilateral triangle with four corner lights and a larger central light. Its surface appeared as black metallic flake paint with gold, lava-like plasma flowing over it. The craft hovered for two to three minutes before flashing its center light and ascending rapidly to commercial jet level without sound. He smelled a thunderstorm scent and later saw only the center light before the craft moved east over the Atlantic. The entire event lasted about 15 minutes. When asked about retaliation after disclosing to the ICIG, Borland stated that prior to public awareness, retaliation was widespread, but speaking out has raised awareness. He noted that the UAP Disclosure Act of 2025 is vital for public accountability, though he would prefer a shorter seven-year window for disclosures.

You agree with that assessment? I agree. One or the other. Mr. Borland, when you first experienced what you were looking at, what did you do next? What was your next step after it had passed and you were done? I actually kind of laughed at myself and said, okay, so this exists as well. I worked in enough programs, been exposed to enough that I was like, okay, so this is a real thing. I went back, walked the track, talked with a couple of my friends about it. I did talk with some of my coworkers. One in particular, which I thought was a joke and it definitely wasn’t, was like, you probably should never say this to anybody. And then what happened to me happened.

What about you, Mr. Nussatelli? And sorry, I know I’m running out of time, Madam Chairman. So obviously your incident happened well before we could review it. Yes. I’m sorry. We could record things on cell phones and things of that nature, right? What did you do when you first experienced? Because what you saw, you saw it happen right out of your base. Correct. So tell me what you did after you saw that. What was your next move?

My next move, I went into my house after it left. I made sure no one had been abducted and I picked up the landline. I called the Security Forces Command Center. I reported it. I requested that they give me a call back and make notifications up the chain of command. I got a call back in about fifteen minutes. They reported that the weather station reported no balloons or aircraft, nothing on radar, no aircraft inbound or outbound. So I got that notification. And then within the following day or two, me and the other witnesses wrote statements. We prepared a report. And then we went back. We filed all that information.

Madam Chairman, thank you for your indulgence in my questioning. And thank you for continuing to lead on this subject. What do you and your friends think about it today? You all have talked about it. I mean, so what do you think about your experience as a collective group? That’ll be my last question, Madam Chairman. I mean, we’ve been talking about this for twenty years. We don’t know what we saw. What we saw changed our lives in the way we think about everything. And I think that’s what we’re going to do. I think we should bear the life.

Thank you for the shout-out to those of us who have been home. Thank you. That is a great influential piece of technology. I think that’s a really useful article. But for sure, a accent value ought to be one of the key and we should be having as the multiple processes for governmental micro pickriece and those sort of selling and giving of information and not so much shining this or that and putting it out the window.

Mr. Knapp, thank you. And I guess I’m gonna say something else first. Do you want to say anything else? I think you should investigate you so it’s almost like they’re curious so that’s the thing we primarily talk about. You know why did it come after we know it noticed it maybe it noticed us after we noticed it. You’re welcome. I now recognize Representative Mace for five minutes.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. Mr. Borland, I’d like to start with you and ask a few questions. Were there any other witnesses when you saw the equilateral triangle? Were there other witnesses that saw the same thing? Not to my knowledge, ma’am. At that point, the only people that would be awake is us, those of us that were doing operations for the G-Watt and then security forces. So not to my knowledge.

And do you think that in your opinion the equilateral triangle was the U.S. government’s technology? I did once upon a time, but knowing what I know now, I’ll have to answer that question in a skiff probably. I was getting one might ask questions. You teased us. Knowing what you know now means what I know enough to know that if you want an answer to that question go to Arrow—they have the answer. Do you think it was a foreign government? I do not know, and Arrow is supposed to be disclosing. The last time I was in a skiff with Arrow, they said they were going to be just doing disclosures. Had they been doing much of that? I don’t know. I don’t have an answer for you.

Some of this stuff can be debunked. Right there are sometimes weather balloons that look kind of funky or drones or whatever depending on the angle, direction, speed, etc. Are you scared for your safety? That’s a complicated question. Being here today, if I say the wrong word technically I can be charged with espionage. Espionage is a death penalty. Whistleblowers have faced it, John Kiriakou for example. I am not scared for my physical safety in the sense of an agency or company coming to kill me, but I have no job. My career has been tarnished. I’m unemployed, living off unemployment for the next three or four weeks until that’s gone. So it’s a complicated question.

There have been stories leaked about your life to try to discredit you in the public eye. I as of now don’t know. I’ll be you know they did that to Mr. Grush. I am aware, yes, ma’am. They leaked his medical private medical information. Horrific things. Okay, you said in your testimony earlier with the chairwoman, other things. I guess that has to be mentioned in a skiff. It would be other things, it would be pending. I’m even legally allowed to speak on, and the people in the room are even legally allowed to hear it.

Is that what the need to know is? Like the compartmentalized word, like what the code word is or the name of the program, the special access program? Or even hear it you have to know the word? I would say the name of it. I would suggest that to be asked to the DNI, Dabored, and work with her for that because I can’t give you the answer on what is the requirements. This is what the U.S. government does. They compartmentalize the information. Only certain people know the name of the program, and if you don’t know it, you can’t get the information. If you don’t have the name, you don’t know what to ask for.

Reviewing the budget, we go into a skiff. We look at DoD budget and the budget of like black box programs, and we don’t know what we’re looking at because we don’t know what these programs are. Is it a way for the government to hide from Congress what’s really going on where the money’s going? In my opinion, absolutely yes.

You mentioned in your testimony earlier that quote that you went to speak with the government and they said they said somebody’s name, a colleague’s name, you said they shouldn’t have mentioned that staff person’s name. What does that mean? A Senate staffer who is the one who helped me get to Arrow recommended me. I go there, gave me the email and the phone number because I could not find that information at all at the time. In fact, I believe you guys have talked about how Arrow didn’t even have a website for quite a period of time. We were told they were gonna do disclosures, both what they’ve debunked because some of it can be dumped, and then what they haven’t been able to debunk. To my knowledge, you know it hasn’t been a thing.

I only have one minute left. So Mr. Knapp, we were definitely going to you. Watch every documentary you guys have done. You and Jeremy have done a terrific job. I usually have more questions and I have answers. I think we all do, and you guys are doing a terrific job to bring information to the public. Do you think that any of this is a psyop by the U.S. government? Entirely possible. I mean, our government and other governments have admitted that they’ve tried to use UFOs to cover secret projects, but I think they also do some reverse engineering of those claims. Years after people start seeing UFOs over Area 51, for example, they come up with the story, oh yeah, that was we planted that story. I read in a major newspaper just a couple of weeks ago they planted this story. An Air Force colonel went out into the desert, went to a bar at Rachel, and gave them some fake UFO photos, and that’s how the whole story about Area 51 started, which is preposterous.

Okay, thank you so much for your time today. Wish we had more time. Thank you, Madam Chair. I now recognize Miss Crockett for five minutes.

Thank you so much, Madam Chair, and thank you so much to each of the witnesses that have come before us today. The federal government has had a long standing over classification issue in general. We all know that from the assassinations of MLK and Malcolm X to the COINTELPRO and torture programs to now UAPs. The federal government has kept the American public in the dark about issues of immense public interest. The federal government has routinely made excuses for failing to provide transparency to the public. The most common of which is national security concerns.

Mr. Spielberger, can you provide an example of when national security was inappropriately used as a pretext for classification? Congresswoman, probably one of the most infamous examples of that is the 9/11 Commission that found that over classification was a key factor in the failure to adequately prevent the attacks of that day. In addition to that, what lessons from these oversight failures should guide Congress in approaching UAP oversight policy? I’d start recognizing an unusual and disturbing policy given that some of their Venezuelan clients were actively over classified and well.

Generally speaking, we would advise this Congress to ensure that agencies adopt general policy in favor of disclosure instead of a knee-jerk need to over classify information and documents. Recommend adding additional factors to the considerations of cost value and certainly to the extent that it’s critical for the public interest and the public’s right to know, especially when we are talking about these very serious national security concerns and implications.

Can you speak to how whistleblowers have historically helped Congress uncover the truth in other areas and how that might apply here? Absolutely. Again, Congress has always relied on whistleblowers coming forward and making disclosures in a number of different issues across different agencies—anything from national security to airline safety, railway safety, environmental concerns, workplace health and safety. A lot of issues coming out of the country. So I think it’s important to think about that. And I think often if something has to come forward, for every government since we are in an era of the COVID pandemic, whistleblowers have come forward with important disclosures on just about any critical issue affecting our government and affecting the American people, all of which have grave implications for the rights and protections that we have and how we live our lives in communities across the country.

How important is it for whistleblowers to have strong protections when it comes to UAP related disclosures? It’s absolutely vital. This has been one of the disappointing failures of doing this work of advocating for stronger whistleblower protections. We recognize the invaluable public service that brave whistleblowers play in coming forward, taking all of these risks just to speak the truth and get important information out in the public consciousness. But they can only do so when we have safe and secure channels for reporting, when there is trust in the independence of agency watchdogs like inspectors general, like the Office of Special Counsel, like the Merit Systems Protection Board that play critical roles in investigating whistleblower disclosures and enforcing the protection of the property.

And so I think the constitutional rules that we have in the public consciousness and the protections of whistleblowers, all of that is essential to allow whistleblowers to keep coming forward and playing these incredibly important public roles. Thank you so much. Let me just say this. People look at Congress, especially now, and they see a lack of unity. They don’t see the ability for us to come together really on much of anything. I will say that I do applaud the committee and the work of this committee because for once I feel like we are focusing on governing, which should be about transparency.

The reality is that we cause more harm than good when we allow a lack of transparency to festerc. It allows for all types of conspiracy theories instead of us actually making the investments that we need to make to get the information and actually provide it to the American people. The reason that I wanted to focus on making sure that we answer some questions specifically around the protections of those that are willing to come forward is because the only way that we can make this government actually work for all of us is if no matter where you are in this federal government, you feel as if you are safe when you come forward with information of any issue. And so I do want to thank you for all of your stories.

The reality is that we only get five minutes. We are going to be able to get to the end of the show. Thank you. Thank you. I think that the vast majority of everything that you have to say cannot be contextualized within five minutes. But I know that my colleagues are going to get to kind of pulling some more of that out. But again, I really just want to thank you for your courage in this moment and thank you for your service to our country.

I now recognize Mr. Burchett from Tennessee for five minutes. I want to thank you for your service to our country. I want to thank you for your service to our country. And thank you, Ranking Member Crockett. I see a lot of friends out there and I see a couple enemies. So I’ll remember that. But it’s a pleasure being here.

I want to remind people, too, this thing is an ongoing deal. We’re not going to get this overnight. We’ve been fighting this battle, some of you all, for thirty years and maybe longer. I hope we keep focused on what we’re trying to get to as total as possible. We’re not going to get a lot of closure. We get a little wrapped up in a lot of things. But the government has something, and they need to turn it over to us. We pay their dadgum salary. You pay our salary. And you ought to get more out of us than you do. And that’s what discussed me about this whole thing. I think they’re just trying to run the clock out on us, really. They’ll poke us a little and they’ll make jokes to us and try to pull us off the target. But I think we know where we’re at. That’s why they’re firing at us, because we are over the target.

My first question is, Mr. Knapp, I recently introduced the UAP Whistleblower Protection Act to help provide whistleblower protection to federal personnel for closing the use of federal taxpayer funds to investigate UFOs. I still don’t want to say UAPs. How can Congress further increase whistleblower protections? I think you got to unleash the dog. Go track down the money and where it goes. A lot of this stuff has been moved out of government. As you know, Representative Burchett, it’s been given to private contractors who stashed it away. They’ve had it for so long that there’s nobody left inside government or very few who know where it is. And they do that to keep us from FOIA, correct? Yeah. To keep it from FOIA.

And I think the contractors who had this stuff for a very long time set their own standards about who is allowed to know what. And it’s a good thing. It’s a very small group that ever cracks that. I think Representative Luna has been looking at the use of classifications to hide things. I’m not sure that even this committee getting security clearances that should allow you to see this stuff would allow you to follow where it really goes. I worry about the people that are looking at it and don’t even know what they’re looking at. I mean, it’s gone through so many, since Roswell, for instance. I mean, you think there’s nobody even alive that was around any of that stuff. I don’t think they’ve made much progress from the people that I’ve talked to. I don’t think they’ve made much progress in learning that technology. Might have made some, but you wonder, you know, the implication is tick-tack, oh yeah, that’s ours. What flew over Washington, D.C. in 52, is that ours too? When are you going to break that out? You guys authorized tens of billions, hundreds of billions of dollars on weapon systems that can’t do half of what we’ve seen UFOs do. So when do they break this out if it’s really a classified project could change the world? I don’t think they’ve made much progress. I think they’ve been lying to us and to you and the rest of the world, and they’re still doing it.

Yes, sir, I agree with you. How did you manage to obtain the classified Russian UAP documents, and how did you get them back into the United States? Well, I met this Russian physicist who was in the United States. And I want to clarify that. I can’t even take a thing of honey home for a minute. I can’t even take a thing of honey home on my airplane when I fly back to Tennessee. I did something pretty dumb, and I’m better about it, but go ahead. I did something kind of dumb. I met with these officials who, you know, during that time period, Glasnost, Perestroika, the Russians were trying to open up to the world, and I saw it as a window of opportunity, and it was. And we were able to talk these folks into providing us information that otherwise we would never have seen. Some of that was classified. I had no documents that were classified, so I just removed them. I removed those pages and I carried them out. And if they’d caught me, I’d be in a gulag still. Yeah. We’d be saying, what happened to George Knapp? Oh yeah, what happened to the Russians that came forward to you in 1993, and were there any repercussions for them? Well, there were. The first thing that happened, when I talked about this after getting back and going through the files and things, the Russian physicist who had helped us introduce all these people wrote back and said there was a huge eruption, that there was the real right, far autocratic forces that wanted a return of the USSR had really gone after these guys. They described them as traitors. The physicist friend of mine said, look, if this had happened five years earlier, we would be in prison. If it had happened ten years earlier, we would have been shot. Luckily at that point, Putin was not in power, but none of those people that we talked to on that trip in 1993 would ever talk to me again. I went back in 1996 and it was like I had the plague. I spoke to different people, but they were scared. And eventually the story was spun where the Ministry of Defense officials who gave us this information were described as euphologists who said there was nothing really significant to these files. They didn’t really find anything a big deal. And I can tell you that the folks at ICBM, I can tell you you’ll see those files that I shared with you. They did find stuff. There was an incident in October of 1982 over an ICBM base where UFOs popped up, was observed over this base where the missiles are pointed at us, the United States. These UFOs performed incredible maneuvers. They split apart. They fuse back together. They appear and disappear. And right at the end of this four-hour period, the launch control codes for the ICBMs lit up. Something entered the correct codes. The missiles were fired up and ready to launch and they could not shut it down. The Russian officers were panicking. The UFOs go, they disappeared. The launch control system goes back to normal. Colonel Sakalov and his team came in, took the thing apart, could not figure out what it was. It wasn’t a power surge or EMPs or some of the baloney excuses that our country has given for similar events involving our nuclear missiles. They thought it was a message from wherever the UFOs were from. That’s a chilling thing. We were a couple of seconds away from World War III starting and the UFOs were responsible for it.

I’m out of time. Real quick, who are the contractors that have this material, corporations? One of them is Lockheed. I’m not saying Lockheed is the bad guys. They’re doing what they were asked to do. They have lied about this because that’s what they’re supposed to do. Lockheed would be one. There’s a list I can give you, Congressman. Some of the big ones, the usual suspects.

Thank you. You’ll be able to go to the back, sorry for going over. It’s all George Knapp’s fault. I now recognize Ms. Bobert for five minutes.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Chief Wiggins, based on your training and operational experience, could the behavior that you witnessed, a transmedium object vanishing without a sound, be explained by any known technology that we possess or other governments possess? It cannot. No. And has any government explained that? No.

Okay. So does any agency debriefed you or any of your shipmates regarding the EOIR and radar confirmed UAP encounter aboard USS Jackson? No one has, no many. What was that encounter like when you brought that up, if you want to briefly summarize that? When you brought that to their attention and then you were not provided any follow-up, who was told and what, how did you feel when there was no contact back to you? As far as the actual incident happening or the reporting level? Yes, sir. Yes, Chief. It was within the event happening, my duties are to report to the tactical action officer on watch while we’re standing watch. So tactical action officer was there. I made my report. I’ve not had any discussion outside of that day. There’s been no communication to me. There’s been no communication to me or requests from me to, you know, within inside of the military.

But speaking of that actual incident itself, once the report was made to the tactical action officer, that’s when I made the decision to ask the individual watch standard that was controlling Safire to be able to slu into the location. And that’s what you see in the video itself is when the watch standard is slu ing in and kind of showing us what we’re looking at. But outside of that, that’s as far as the reporting went that I know of.

Thank you, Chief. Just for the sake of time, Mr. Nussatelli, has ARO, the Air Force, or the FBI ever followed up with you personally about the Red Square event? I did have follow-up by ARO. Nothing but the Air Force. The ARO office updated me that they were involved in the Red Square event. I think at least two times. They let me know that they were unable to locate any records, that the records had been destroyed by the Air Force. The Air Force is destroying all their police records every three years on a schedule. You were informed that these documents were destroyed? Well, I have a Freedom of Information Act from the Air Force that states clearly that they destroy all police records on a three-year schedule. Okay. So they were sitting on documentation, destroyed it, refused to question any of the lead investigators, anything leading into this investigation? Yeah, basically they destroyed all the police records. So you couldn’t even, like, call the Air Force and ask them if there was a vehicle accident in that time frame. So that’s a big problem. We’re losing data in real time. So we’ll never be able to go back and track. I think our federal government has a history of destroying police records. And we’re not going to be able to go back and track.

Okay. So that’s a big problem. Destroying records. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Nussatelli.

Dr. Borlin, as a geospatial intelligence officer, have you seen classified data indicating UAPs operate in restricted U.S. airspace? And has that information been withheld from Congress? I have not in U.S. airspace. That is intelligence oversight. So I did not have domestic authorities. Okay. And in your inspector general complaint over retaliation inside the Pentagon’s UAP office, did you receive any kind of protection or just more retaliation? Within the IG or ARO, ma’am? Either. ARO, they went after the staff member and classified everything, shut that down. The IG, to this day, I don’t even know if my complaint is active. I know my attorney that represented me was very, very, very concerned. And the best of my understanding is that I did not have any confidence in their confidence. I was determined credible, not urgent.

And do you think that that experience would suggest that the internal UAP investigations may be compromised? Possibly. I mean, it’s so hard because this goes back to people doing the job they’re told to do. And very few people are going to want to give up their careers, 20, 30-year pension, give up, get rid of their kids’ health care, get rid of their house. It’s possible, yes.

Okay. Thank you very much, Dr. Borlin.

Mr. Spielberger, do national security whistleblowers currently have any external appeals processes to challenge retaliation, or are they just stuck relying on the same agencies that they’re accusing? Congresswoman, this is one of the biggest concerns that we at POGO have basically around the independence of investigations and accountability for retaliation. Basically, we have a lot of concerns that we have to figure out. We have to figure out what is the basic reason for that. And basically, yes, national security whistleblowers have to rely on internal administrative processes that go through agency inspectors general. There are some differentiations, but the bottom line is that they are forced to rely on protection from the same agencies and people who they are alleging retaliated against them.

Well, I thank you all for your bravery. We are out of time here. Thank you so much for coming forward. And we will do everything that we can to ensure that you are all protected. Thank you for trying to bring truth and transparency to the American people. Madam Chair, I yield. I now recognize Mr. Berlinson for about five minutes.

Thank you, everyone. It takes such great courage to come forward, and we acknowledge that, and I hope that you see that we are taking that seriously. And so very thankful for what you are doing today. I’m also very thankful for previous witnesses that have come forward. I see Matthew Brown in the audience. He courageously stepped forward and was a witness. He was a great witness. I encourage everybody to look and seek his testimony. I want to thank the people that came in our first hearing, Ryan Graves, David Grush, David Frazer, and in our second hearing, Admiral Galadette, Lou Elizondo, and Mr. Gold, and the many others that have come forward. We hear you, and it’s time that we, you know, enough is enough. It’s time that we take action.

Look, I’m not jumped to the conclusion that I believe that there are things that are going on in the community. I’m not jumped to the conclusion that there are aliens coming from another planet. But I’m open to that. And I think that it’s our responsibility, especially when we’re seeing that we have a government that is blocking, actively blocking information from us. Just last night, I tried to get an amendment onto the National Defense Authorization Act that fits in the germaneness of that bill to have UAP disclosure. And conveniently, it was named non-germane, mostly deemed by staff. Not even the government. Not even an elected official. This is the kind of stuff that we repeatedly see. Last year, we were blocked by someone in House Administration from being able to receive a full briefing from Arrow. So not an elected official, but someone in staff blocked us. And I’ve had it. Enough is enough.

I want to queue up a video that I’ve been given. And before it starts, I’m going to describe. This was taken October 30th of 2021. This video is of an MQ-9 drone tracking an orb, or this object, off the coast of Yemen. You’ll see that another MQ-9 launched a Hellfire missile. You cannot see that drone. So I’m not going to explain it to you. You’ll see exactly what it does. And I’m going to continue to show you how it’s being picked up. This is when it zoomed out. So you can still see it traveling. This is when it zoomed out.

So Mr. Knapp, do you have any, have you heard about, you know, events like this occurring? And what information might you have? I have heard about events like this. I have heard about this event. Jeremy Corbell and I talked about it in one of our episodes a while back. We did not have the video, though. There are servers where there’s a whole bank of these kind of videos that Congress has not been allowed to see, that the public hasn’t been allowed to see. Occasionally some of that stuff gets out in the wild and it comes our way. It should be going to you. You know, the public should be seeing this stuff. And why you’re not allowed to, I don’t know. But that’s a Hellfire missile smacking into that UFO and just bounced right off. And it kept going. It kept going. And it looks like the debris was taken with it. Yeah. What the hell is that? What? What? What? What?

So again, I’m not going to speculate what it is, but the question is, you know, why are we being blocked from this information consistently? I want to ask this question. How in the world? This is the document. I want to enter this in for the record if it hasn’t already been entered, Madam Chair. The document that you provided on thread three, this is a huge file. How in the world did you smuggle this out of Russia? Carefully.

The document provided on thread three is a huge file. How in the world did you smuggle this out of Russia? Carefully. In your socks? I don't want to be specific about it because I might have to go back there and get more sometime. I took the top pages off that were stamped with the security signature and carried them out on my person. But the rest of them I threw in my suitcase and added caviar as a distraction, hoping for the best. Otherwise, I'd be a citizen of Siberia now.

Dr. Likatsky is an honorable man who served most of his career with the DIA, a very trusted high-level rocket scientist and intelligence analyst who inspired the OSAP program. In full disclosure, I've co-written two books with him. He dropped this on me and our other co-author out of the blue. It took 14 months to get DOP approval for him to release two sentences about it. He said this craft, we had managed to get inside of it. It had no wings, no rotor, no tail. It had no fuel, no fuel tanks. They didn't know how it flew or how it was operated. It clearly looked aerodynamic, but he would not go further. He's a by-the-book guy. Until he gets clearance to say more, he's out.

I'm not going to lie. I'm going to say more about that. I don't think we're going to hear much more. But it's not ours. It wasn't ours. We didn't make it. We didn't know who made it or how it was built or how it operated. We've got at least one. I think that's enough confirmation we have recovered disks and materials.

Mr. Borland, in the classified realm, have you been exposed to undeniable confirmation of NHI technology? Is Bay Systems involved? Is it a private company? Is it an agency? Is it a company? And is Bay Systems involved in any way with reverse engineering exploitation of non-human intelligence craft? We'll need to have a conversation about whether I'm legally allowed to answer that, and whether you're even allowed to hear it.

Thank you for coming forward. We will continue to fight because this is about making sure this government belongs to the people and restoring the republic as intended. Thank you. Madam Chair, I also have further witnesses of courageous individuals. I received testimony from Dr. Steven Greer, including Michael Herrera, Roderick Castle, Randy Anderson, and Steven Digna, all saying similar things to the witnesses today. I would like to enter that into the record as well. No objection.

I now recognize Representative Lee for five minutes. We need to ensure we don't get distracted by sensational stories about unidentified anomalous phenomena and lose track of the core issue. Whistleblowers are crucial, and it's vital we step up to protect them. With Trump, RFK Jr., EPA Administrators, and the Department of Defense, we are all in this together. We stand for justice here. We agree this is not about voting votes from a Republican without heating lights. Our members are mine. It's about voting votes, and we're all in this together.

Whistleblowers expose fraud at more than twice the rate of third-party auditors. Mr. Spielberger, what are some of the best examples of whistleblowers exposing fraud in the federal government? Whistleblowers have played a vital role across many issues. One prominent example is the 2014 VA waitlist scandal. POGO coordinated with Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, receiving tips from over 800 individuals about veterans being subjected to extensive delays. This contributed to prolonged serious illnesses and hastened deaths. Whistleblowers helped shed light on this issue, emphasizing their importance beyond national security contexts. They often face life-and-death concerns.

Mr. Spielberger, what kinds of retaliation have whistleblowers faced historically, and what are we seeing under the Trump administration? Retaliation through abuse of the security clearance process is a grave issue, affecting a whistleblower's ability to seek legal counsel. Over the past several months, this administration has systematically dismantled the nonpartisan civil service through mass firings, undermining independent agencies, and firing inspectors general. These entities are meant to investigate whistleblower disclosures and protect their rights. Congress passed the Whistleblower Protection Act in 1989 and broadened it in 2012 to ensure federal workers could come forward freely.